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Sun, Nov 22 2009
Merkel's Nato 'veto' comments were about Russia, not Greece, Athens told
German chancellor Angela Merkel
When German chancellor Angela Merkel hit out at "old-fashioned thinking" by those who used their vetos to block new members from joining Nato, she was referring to Russia and not Greece, her aides have assured Athens.
The assurances were a sequel to Greek media reports that Athens had been "irked" by what it suspected was a reference by Merkel to Greece having used its veto in 2008 to prevent an invitation being issued to Macedonia to join Nato.
Athens and Skopje are locked in a prolonged dispute over the use of the name Macedonia. Pending resolution of the dispute, which has defied United Nations-brokered attempts to resolve it, Athens has stood in the way of Skopje’s attempts to get into Nato and the European Union.
On March 28 2009, Greek daily Kathimerini said that the the Greek ambassador to Germany, Anastassios Kriekoukis, had asked for clarification from chancellor Merkel’s office after she seemed to accuse Athens of "old-fashioned thinking" in blocking the former Yugoslav republic from joining Nato.
"I stick to my position that we must incorporate the European democracies who want to and are in a position to contribute to our security," said Merkel in a speech ahead of Nato’s 60th anniversary summit on April 3 and 4 in France and Germany.
"We must not allow others to attempt to deter this through a veto and because of an old-fashioned way of thinking in their spheres of influence," Merkel said.
Merkel’s aides informed Kriekoukis that Merkel had not been referring to Greece but to Russia and its stance toward the possible Nato membership of Georgia and Ukraine.
Greek news agencies said that a Greek government spokesperson had said that if Merkel’s statement was read carefully, there could be no negative conclusions.
The assurances were a sequel to Greek media reports that Athens had been "irked" by what it suspected was a reference by Merkel to Greece having used its veto in 2008 to prevent an invitation being issued to Macedonia to join Nato.
Athens and Skopje are locked in a prolonged dispute over the use of the name Macedonia. Pending resolution of the dispute, which has defied United Nations-brokered attempts to resolve it, Athens has stood in the way of Skopje’s attempts to get into Nato and the European Union.
On March 28 2009, Greek daily Kathimerini said that the the Greek ambassador to Germany, Anastassios Kriekoukis, had asked for clarification from chancellor Merkel’s office after she seemed to accuse Athens of "old-fashioned thinking" in blocking the former Yugoslav republic from joining Nato.
"I stick to my position that we must incorporate the European democracies who want to and are in a position to contribute to our security," said Merkel in a speech ahead of Nato’s 60th anniversary summit on April 3 and 4 in France and Germany.
"We must not allow others to attempt to deter this through a veto and because of an old-fashioned way of thinking in their spheres of influence," Merkel said.
Merkel’s aides informed Kriekoukis that Merkel had not been referring to Greece but to Russia and its stance toward the possible Nato membership of Georgia and Ukraine.
Greek news agencies said that a Greek government spokesperson had said that if Merkel’s statement was read carefully, there could be no negative conclusions.
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aw gee, poor greece is 'irked'. lele baba, xenophobic, whining crybabies!
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Peter Janovski's posts have been deleted!!!! Now the hating can finally stop! We should all have a cyberspace party. Goodbye Peter and please dont come back
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Vasileos - not sure you are right about Austrians being the same as Bavarians - for over 1000 years until 1938 they were sharply distinct under different empires (Hohenzollern for Bavaria, Hapsburg for Austria). Also, they don't speak the same German dialect at all, and some Austrians speak Slovene or Hungarian. As regards Germany's competence on Balkan ethnicity and geography, both in 1914-1918 (when there was a War Front in Macedonia) and in 1939-45, when Germany pushed out the incompetent Italians in Greece, Albania, Macedonia, and Crete, the Germans acquired a very considerable and in-depth knowledge of the region. Which, being Germans, they will have recorded and kept. I myself have a few of the records, which are very thorough.
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Going back to the original press article about Merkel referring to Russia's "veto" rather than Greece's, I think the very first posting on this site from Kiril hits the nail on the head. Russia does not have a veto to block aspirant countries from joining NATO, as Kiril rightly saya - it just sends in the troops instead. This is precisely what happened in Georgia last year (2008) when the Georgian Prime Minister rather foolishly expressed interest in joinging NATO. I am not sure that all Russian tanks have left Georgia yet...
So I'm afraid it does rather look as if Chancellor Merkel was referring to Greece.
(A bit off-topic, but in the process Greece let Albania into NATO instead. Now that really WAS a mistake.)
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No David, I don't like ouzo. All I am saying is you can't judge a whole nation according to a couple of posts you think are antislavic. It would be like me judging Britain due to a couple of shameless British tourist. The opinions of a couple posts do not equate the opinion of all whole nation and in my previous post I was trying to get across to you that is a very big error according to statistics
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I don't see Makedonas Kastoria's point - Slavs have already entered NATO with Poland and the Czech Republic, also Slovenia and Slovakia, and so what ? 60 million Slavs in all these countries can't be entirely wrong, and besides that, what is wrong with being a Slav (except - clearly - being a Greek term of abuse.)
To Dr Cornelius van Helsing
Friend first of all i would like to say that i as all the Greeks we are probably the biggest suporters of the United Europe trust me.And this is not just for unity,the biggest reason that we want this to happen is because(i know it will sound pathetic and stupid what i will say...)we are sick and tired to have 3r world countries for neigboors,we are sick and tired to see the balcans in this situation a toy in the hands of the Americans.About this issie as i would be honest with you.No Greek expects any understanting from the EU and specially from the western counties.If i was in their position i would probably see this matter the same way they see it.Its stupid for them but this is because they have no idea.This will change on the following months.Now as for the veto in EU when a countrie wants to enter in the EU there are some chapters some rules that she has respect.One chapters talks about good neigboor relationship.So there is no need ofr veto afterall but from the point that EU says that she will move the Veto right to the point she does it its another storie.Do u know that before the Buchurest summit the Slavs were sure that they will enter NATO??They celebrate for this actually Bush assured them that they will enter,ofcourse the rules are rules.
to Makedonas Kastoria - I think you will find that following the recent Slovenia / Croatia veto issue (and its resolution) in the EU, that the right of one small country to veto another's accession will be removed. (Actually, if any two EU member states had the "right" to veto each other's names, it was probably Slovenia and Slovakia; George W Bush once got them memorably confused ! But common sense prevailed, and they didn't interfere with each other's names nor impose a veto !) Can I suggest that Greece adopts a similarly sensible approach ?
Sam, that's exactly why Northern Europe ignored Constantinople during her last days and after she fell to the Turks. The phenomena exists today as stated by British and French authors in that there seems to be some kind of silence or taboo to the memory of Roman Empire during Constantinopolitan Era and why the word Byzantine has negative connotations in English. It has only been recent that western historians are starting to unravel this Empire and her mysteries.
Sam, your right, as a Canadian born to Greek parents, I get disgusted with how they act in Greece sometimes, it's the same old fighting between each other that makes me sick, this has been going on since the days of Achilles mind you, the problem is that everyone wants to give commands in Greece, no one wants to shut up and follow.
If it were up to me, I'd have invaded the slavic skopians the first day they decided to use the name Macedonia as their country. Turkey can keep Constantinople, they've probably stunk it up by now anyhow. If Macedonia were to be allowed into Europe and Greece gets snubbed, I'd let every arab immigrant flow into the EU, while at the same time leaving the EU and kicking out every filthy immigrant back to wherever they came from, except the good ones who act like human beings. Those northern countries in the EU have no idea how glad they should be to have us down here weathering out all the immigrants who try and come to the EU as well as for another million of reasons, instead they hide up there and mock us. I'm VERY curious to how this will play out.
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They were likely refering to Greece and not Russia. There are many nations that want Macedonia to enter NATO, that want Madedonia to enter the EU, and that want to destroy present day Greek sovereignty. Greece needs to wake up and do something about it, and Greeks should unite rather than fight each other. Greeks must unite if they want the country to stay together, show solidarity and strength before those that want to destroy it. And something needs to be done about the low birth-rate, and the illegant immigrants who are killing and stealing from greeks. I wish Greeks would wake up- before its too late.
To Dr Cornelius van Helsing
First of all i didnt said that Greece is the oldest but From the oldest members of both constitutions.Greece joined NATO in 1952 3 years after the organitation was founded while btw Germany joined in 1955.Greece requested to enter the Union i thin in 1979 and became full member of it in 1981!Finally what i said is when u are in a constitution with suposed allies like lets say NATO you expect support from your allies,well basically in the bouchourest summit this is what happened.Noone of the countries objected in the veto that Greece puted and basically Germany which is suposed to give advises now for diferent reasons,(we had diferences lately but i need a threat to talk abou it)suported Greece on this.This is what will happen in 20 years from now if lets say that finally our neighboor will get an invitation to be a full member in EU.We will simply Veto cause we have the right to do this.
to Makedonas-Kastoria : Greece is certainly not the oldest member of the EU - it only joined in 1984, long after UK/Ireland/Denmark joined the original Six. I'm not so sure about NATO, but (from my personal experience on NATO SCEPCE, Greece's only contribution was to be awkward about the Turks.)
Who represents "old-fashioned thinking" ?
NATO is an archaism, its existence has been legal so long the Warsaw Pack has existed. Now NATO is looking for new enemies, to protect the USA interests in the world.
Anyway, the final is comming latest in a decade.
It just doesnt matter.it simply doesnt if she meant Russia or if she meant Greece cause we will block them anyway thats for sure.We dont expert any support from anyone and we simply dont care.Greece is from the oldest member of both NATO and EU and we have every right to this.This year we are sending a Macedonian partie to the commision cause this storie has gone too far its time to speak the truth.
I just want to ask a logic question: Does Russia have a right of veto to block aspirant countries from joining NATO!? The answer is - NO, because Russia is not a NATO member. So, the explanation is baseless.