Macedonia was always united with Salonica and always was. There is a chunk of Macedonia that is in the slavic-albanian country called FYROM which Greece does not want.

Archeology magazine article about owning alexander is greatly mocked by hundreds of the top scholars from universities around the world listed in Macedonian evidence.

I invite all people to research Macedonia from non Skopje and non Greek sources and you will come to the same conclusion that Macedonia is Greek

Not really...

Well, Dr Spook, it's only really recently famous for an exceptionally bloody Greek civil war from 1946 to 49 which America did nothing to moderate at all, so few of us can blame fyr Macedonia for trying a new beginning ! I would have thought that this fitted in with American culture fairly well.

Your comparison isn't available. The americano-british case is in any way comparable with the Greek case.
The case of FYROM stealing the name of the greek famous macedonia region is unique in this world and also among the most controversial.

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to Truth - well, the Americans usurped a fair amount of British history and culture (perhaps, in retrospect, not quite enough), but nobody in either country resents it. Maybe a good model for Greece to follow.....

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Dr Cornelius van Helsing

Greece isnt claiming any Territories from this fake nation of slavs,,It is them who is doing the claiming.You can sit here and talk about this till you turn blue in the face.It will not change the historical facts ,that these people calling themselfs macedonians are with out a dout trying to, steal ,usurp the greek history and culture,,if anyone knows greek history and culture,this will not happen,The greeks will not allow this,,To compare what the USA did to the indians with this isssue ,is moronic and ignorant.America wasnt trying to steal native americans history or culture.so how do you compare this to the macedonians name and ethnicity.What really is amazing,is these people now deny they are slavs or bulgars,and claim they are just macedonians,with thier own language and culture from ancient times..what iam trying to say is ..THEY HAVE NO SELF RESPECT,IF SOMEONE DOESNT RESPECT HIMSELF,HE SURE WONT RESPECT ANYONE ELSE..If i wrote in a slavic script and spoke the same language as the rest of the slavic world,,my name is from a slavic orgins,,ect,,etc.WHY WOULD I CALL MYSELF GREEK OR BLACK OR WHAT EVER....No self respect....

As far as the treaty of 1913,,we all know the history then as we do now ,it has been writen down already,Just as the history befor 1913..when i read it it tells me that the name the history and culture of the macedonia ethnicity is of the greek orgins...And it sure isnt going to change because of a few slavs and bulgars..You know the history of 1912 13 ..Greece,and the greeks know macedonia and its history and culture is thiers.

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A few errors have crept into Dr Truth's memorable contributions.

Firstly, DNA wasn't even "invented" in the 1930s/40s in the time of Hitler.

Secondly, some of the information contained in DNA is already known in conventional "blood group" information, both at individual and at national level, as blood groups vary by nationality and ethnic origin. In Northern Europe all this information is in the public domain - is it so in Greece ? Somehow I think it might not be, but I would be happy to be proved wrong.

Thirdly, academicians are not politicians (or if they are, they tend to be very bad ones ! And vice-versa).

Fourthly, "peer group review" is confined to academia and is frequently an unconstructive process involving the settling of old scores. The commercial world sensibly ignores this and uses patents instead !

Authentication code: rzeczpospolita

300 of the worlds most famouse historians, from universities such as, Stanford, Oxford , Cambridge , Yale, Vassar, College de France and hundreds of others in the United States and Europe have all stated that the ancient macedons where Greeks.

They also appeal to Fyrom to stop with their political and historical propaganda.

Read their letter in

w w w macedonia-evidence . org

"Ne Naskoro ili mnogo dalech"
glupachi
shte vidime
the only appropiate answer to such a idoitic preamble.

to Gema - well, thanks for the URL links (better than I could do) and I can well see your point. It was good practice for me reading the Cyrillic sub-titles, but this is nasty inflammatory stuff best left to nerds in internet cafe games machines at best.

Have these clips been broadcast, and if so on what channel ? In my view they should NOT be broadcast, but left in the obscurity of certain racist internet cafes (I know one in Belgrade, but there must be others.)

To Aries and Cornelius: here are some amusing clips put together by Skopjans concerning 2013. If Skopje wishes to join NATO and the EU then it is need of an EXTREME makeover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBBJgCyYc1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBBJgCyYc1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBBJgCyYc1Q

It seems it is their prerogative to capture Macedonia from Greece in order to survive

Enjoy

to Aries - "quelle desastre funeste"! Sorry I didn't see the 2013 Macedonian Apocalypse coming.
As the English hymn says (no 361, Hymns Ancient & Modern) :
"How mournfully it echoes on,
For half the world is Macedon"
(that, by the way, is a genuine quote !)

In short, this sounds like an issue best resolved in the Next World rather than this one, not least as all the protagonists from Alexander the Great onwards will be available for interview.

Until then I shall return to my Transylvanian clients (who have this disturbing habit of (a) only speaking Romanian, which is neither a Slavic nor a Hellenic language, and (b) climbing vertically down castle walls at dead of night using their cloaks as stabilisers, (c) adopting an organic diet which seems to involved recycling human blood from the living or recently dead. The latter is of course in full confirmance with the recent EU Directive on Recycling of Mammal Materials. Only my clients tend to interpret it rather over-enthusiastically, rather like the UK government does on recycling domestic waste !

Sometimes you just can't win...

Sophocles
You sure have a point.

Yes, they can build their statues, rename their airports but the missing link is Thessaloniki and the Province of Macedonia...without these they have no legitimate claim to ancient Macedonia, they know this and so does Athens.

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Excuse typos
Committed instead of Commoitted
Cuustic instead Cautic.
sorry!

And might I add that it appears from John's, and Peter's posts they still haven't changed. They need Greek Macedonia to fully justify their claims to ancient Macedonia to the point they have chosen Turkey as a main ally. In reality, no matter what they call themselves, no matter if the whole world calls them Macedonians, without Thessaloniki and Greek Macedonia they are no more Macedonian than Cornelius is.

Aries it was more than a Greek issue, as John hinted, many of the Skopjan communists killed Greeks in attempts to claim Macedonia for themselves. That is why they were exiled from Greece for their ethnic genocide all in the name of Macedoniasm. They were a lucky bunch too, as their Greek comrades were taken to an island and severely tortured and executed for their horrible crimes.

To Dr Cornelius
"Traitor" you didn't admit that Transylvania is Macedonian you have commoitted a great crime my friend the whole world is Fyrom
in 2013 when the "hurly burly is done ...... here upon doth is to
meet with Macbeth"
Too cautic maybe but no other
to cope with such fanatism and
ignorance.

To John
Imfamous or not it was Greek issue
so keep out of it.
"le linge sal ce lave en famille"
in french.

to John - sorry, I didn't realise that a typographical error was akin to treason and a blood-feud over generations following the Albanian "Kanun of Lek". Clearly a good reason for all of us to learn to type more carefully....

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Then you are a traitor to Great and United Macedonia, we will do to you as we did to the greeks during the infamous Greek Civil War!

Sorry - typo - I meant "perspective" and not "perprective".

to John - I don't think that Transylvania is in fact Macedonian, but you are right in that it is another international "can of worms" with conflicting ethnic claims backed up by early twentieth-century Treaties hastily drawn up after armed conflicts.

In Transyvlania's case the region is (was) ethnically mixed between Romanians, Hungarians, and Germans for centuries. The peasantry was Romanian, the aristocracy mostly Hungarian, and the merchant class Germans, who mostly lived at peace with each other. The region lay entirely within Hungary's borders.

But after World War I all this changed with the Treaty of Trianon in 1919, which drastically re-drew Hungary's borders so that Romania acquired all of Transylvania. Mass deportations of Hungarians followed, though the Germans stayed until 1991, when they emigrated back into re-united Germany. The area is now almost entirely Romanian.

The first thing the new non-Communist Hungarian government did in 1991 was to try to re-open the Treaty of Trianon so as to get Transylvania back ! (I was personally told this by a Hungarian diplomat in London at the time.) It failed.

Does any of this sound familiar from a Macedonian perprective ?
It well might.....

Transylvania is Macedonian

to TRUTH, if you apply this argument to the USA, it all still belongs to the Native Americans (maybe some of them might indeed agree.)

Applied to the rest of Europe, your argument leaves the Roman Empire in charge of Britain, the Mongolian hordes occupying Hungary, and Israel occupied by the Romans (now THAT will go down really well in Tel-Aviv, especially after the Pope's disastrous visit.)

I suggest you confine yourself to modern history, in particular the Treaty of Bucharest of 1913.

Personally I shall now return for the weekend to Transylvania and my stakeholders around Bran Castle, where the night-life is (by Romanian standards) quite extraordinarily active.

Here some nice reading on the subject,,and there are thousands like this one.

January 22, 2009 Editor, Archaeology Magazine 36-36 33rd Street Long Island City, NY 11106 U.S.A. Dear Sir, I opened the January/February issue of Archaeology today and eagerly turned to “A Letter from Macedonia” only to discover that it was actually a letter from ancient Paionia – the land north of Mt. Barmous and Mt. Orbelos. Livy’s account of the creation of the Roman province of Macedonia (45.29.7 and 12) makes clear that the Paionians lived north of those mountains (which form today the geographically natural northern limits of Greece) and south of the Dardanians who were in today’s Kosovo. Strabo (7. frag 4) is even more succinct in saying that Paionia was north of Macedonia and the only connection from one to the other was (and is today) through the narrow gorge of the Axios (or Vardar) River. In other words, the land which is described by Matthew Brunwasser in his “Owning Alexander” was Paionia in antiquity. While it is true that those people were subdued by Philip II, father of Alexander, in 359 B.C. (Diodorus Siculus 16.4.2), they were never Macedonians and never lived in Macedonia. Indeed, Demosthenes (Olynthian 1.23) tells us that they were “enslaved” by the Macedonian Philip and clearly, therefore, not Macedonians. Isokrates (5.23) makes the same point. Likewise, for example, the Egyptians who were subdued by Alexander may have been ruled by Macedonians, including the famous Cleopatra, but they were never Macedonians themselves, and Egypt was never called Macedonia (and so far as I can tell does not seek that name today). Certainly, as Thucydides (2.99) tells us, the Macedonians had taken over “a narrow strip of Paionia extending along the Axios river from the interior to Pella and the sea”. One might therefore understand if the people in the modern republic centered at Skopje called themselves Paionians and claimed as theirs the land described by Thucydides. But why, instead, would the modern people of ancient Paionia try to call themselves Macedonians and their land Macedonia? Mr. Brunwasser (p.
55) touches on the Greek claims “that it implies ambitions over Greek territory” and he notes that “the northern province of Greece is also called Macedonia.” Leaving aside the fact that the area of that northern province of modern Greece has been called Macedonia for more than 2,500 years (see, inter alios, Herodotus 5.17; 7.128, et alibi), more recent history shows that the Greek concerns are legitimate. For example, a map produced in Skopje in 1992 (Figure 1) shows clearly the claim that Macedonia extends from there to Mt. Olympus in the south; that is, combining the ancient regions of Paionia and Macedonia into a single entity. The same claim is explicit on a pseudo-bank note of the Republic of Macedonia which shows, as one of its monuments, the White Tower of Thessalonike, in Greece (Figure 2). There are many more examples of calendars, Christmas cards, bumper-stickers, etc., that all make the same claim. Further, Mr. Brunwasser has reported with approval (International Herald Tribune 10/1/08) the work of the “Macedonian Institute for Strategic Research 16:9”, the name of which refers “to Acts 16:9, a verse in the New Testament in which a Macedonian man appears to the Apostle Paul begging him: ‘Come over into Macedonia, and help us.’” But where did Paul go in Macedonia? Neapolis (Kavala), Philippi, Amphipolis, Apollonia, Thessaloniki, and Veroia (Acts 16:11-17:10) all of which are in the historic Macedonia, none in Paionia. What claim is being made by an Institute based in Skopje that names itself for a trip through what was Macedonia in antiquity and what is the northern province of Greece today? I wonder what we would conclude if a certain large island off the southeast coast of the United States started to call itself Florida, and emblazoned its currency with images of Disney World and distributed maps showing the Greater Florida. Certainly there was no doubt of the underlying point of “Macedonia” in the mind of U.S. Secretary of State Edward Stettinius on December 26, 1944, when he wrote: “The Department [of State] has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia, emanating principally from Bulgaria, but also from Yugoslav Partisan and other sources, with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected state. This government considers talk of Macedonian ”nation”, Macedonian “Fatherland”, or Macedonian “national consciousness” to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece.”
[Source: U.S. State Department, Foreign Relations vol viii, Washington, D.C., Circular Airgram (868.014/26Dec1944)] Mr. Brunwasser (a resident of Bulgaria), however, goes on to state, with apparent distain, that Greece claims “Alexander III of Macedon (Alexander the Great) . . . as Greek.” This attitude mystifies me. What is there to “claim”? Alexander’s greatgreat-great grandfather, Alexander I, was certified as Greek at Olympia and, in the words of the father of history “I happen to know that [the forefathers of Alexander] are Greek” (Herodotus 5.22). Alexander’s father, Philip, won several equestrian victories at Olympia and Delphi (Plutarch, Alexander 4.9; Moralia 105A), the two most Hellenic of all the sanctuaries in ancient Greece where non-Greeks were not allowed to compete. If Philip was Greek, wasn’t his son also Greek? When Euripides – who died and was buried in Macedonia (Thucydides apud Pal. Anth. 7.45; Pausanias 1.2.2; Diodorus Siculus 13.103) – wrote his play Archelaos in honor of the great-uncle of Alexander, did he write it in Slavic? When he wrote the Bacchai while at the court of Archelaos did he not write it in Greek even as it has survived to us? Or should we imagine that Euripides was a “Macedonian” who wrote in Slavic (at a date when that language is not attested) which was translated into Greek? What was the language of instruction when Aristotle taught Alexander? What language was carried by Alexander with him on his expedition to the East? Why do we have ancient inscriptions in Greek in settlements established by Alexander as far away as Afghanistan, and none in Slavic? Why did Greek become the lingua franca in Alexander’s empire if he was actually a “Macedonian”? Why was the New Testament written in Greek rather than Slavic? On page 57 of the so-called “Letter from Macedonia” there is a photograph of the author standing “before a bronze statue of Alexander the Great in the city of Prilep.” The statue is patently modern, but the question is whether the real historic Alexander could have read the Slavic inscription beneath his feet. Given the known historic posterity of Slavic to Greek, the answer is obvious. While Mr. Brunwasser’s reporting of the archaeological work in Paionia is welcome, his adoption and promotion of the modern political stance of its people about the use of the name Macedonia is not only unwelcome, it is a disservice to the readers of Archaeology who are, I imagine, interested in historic fact. But then, the decision to propagate this historical nonsense by Archaeology – a publication of the Archaeological Institute of America - is a disservice to its own reputation. Let it be said once more: the region of ancient Paionia was a part of the Macedonian empire. So were Ephesos and Tyre and Palestine and
Memphis and Babylon and Taxila and dozens more. They may thus have become “Macedonian” temporarily, but none was ever “Macedonia”. Allow me to end this exegesis by making a suggestion to resolve the question of the modern use of the name “Macedonia.” Greece should annex Paionia – that is what Philip II did in 359 B.C. And that would appear to be acceptable to the modern residents of that area since they claim to be Greek by appropriating the name Macedonia and its most famous man. Then the modern people of this new Greek province could work on learning to speak and read and write Greek, hopefully even as well as Alexander did. Sincerely, Stephen G. Miller Professor Emeritus, University of California, Berkeley PS: For a more complete examination of the ancient evidence regarding Paionia, see I. L. Merker,“The Ancient Kingdom of Paionia,” Balkan Studies 6 (1965) 35-54 http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2009/03/01/archaeologymagazine-letter-to-the-editor-by-professor-stephen-g-miller/

SOLUMS,,AEGEAN MACEDOINA??
There is no such thing,this term was made by a bunch of communist pigs who have enslaved your people for years and had cliams to macedonia in the 1940s,,this is why greece doesnt reconize this fake nation with this fake name.Ethnicity- belonging to a group that shares the same characteristics, such as country of origin, language, religion, ancestry and culture. Ethnicity is a matter of biological and historical fact. Therefore Macedonians are Greek. It's that simple. U Yugoslavs on the other hand share the same language, religion, ancestry and culture as Bulgarians.
This is who you people are not macedonians.as far as a macedonian language. It is THE FIRST time in history that a "language" was created from a bulgarian dialect bulgar.!!!!!!!
The hybrid VARDARSKAN ALPHABET was created in 1944 during Tito's regiment from 11 "scientists": Vasil Ilioski, Hristo Zografov, Krum Toshev, Dare Djambas, Venko? Markovski, Mirko Pavlovski, Mihail Petrushevski, Hristo Prodanov, Georgi Kiselinov, Georgi Shoptraianov, and Iovan Kostov.
because the communist removed a few letters from the bulgar dialect,to try and distance you from the bulagrians,,the truth of the matter is that this nation has been a fraud threw out history.

What concrete evidence is there that the Treaty of Bucharest has an expiry date in 2013 ? This sounds more like a fond hope in certain quarters.

Fat chance crack pot phil. If you think the treaty expires you're a brainwashed goon

The only way this problem will go away is when Macedonia is united with Aegean Macedonia and reclaims Solums when the treaty of bucharest expires in 2013