MM,
exactly my point.
Abortion IS a crude and dangerous form of birth control.

I said "birth" control, not unsafe sex control... those Anglos...

"birth control is only possible in a civilized society,"

->
"Bulgaria ranked first in the European Union in terms of teenager pregnancies and the number of abortions by teenagers - 35 per 1000 girls, Bulgarian Society of Obstetrics and Gynaecology head Nikolai Milchev said. The number of abortions registered in Bulgaria annually was nearly 55 000, but their actual number was a lot bigger," from this very site.

Even in Romania with much bigger population there is only 18 000 abortions annually. I think something is wrong in BG in this matter.

Valeri

Wed, Oct 21 2009 21:23 CET

"I think Mikael is being conservative.
School is much more because there are 8 kids on the average in a "North African" family.

Note how the majority are men.
There are 4 wives and 10 kids behind, for every one of those guys."

That's exactly right.

They are only going to be a burden on every society they come into.

Here in Australia we are experiencing the "rewards" of accepting so many of them into our society. They stay together and creathe ghetoes. Teenagers get involved with Muslim fanatics and go back and forth from here to their country in search of "spritual enlightment" only to come back and be dangerous.

They don't blend in or even try to, unlike any other group of refugees or migrants that have come to these shroes.

Every other ethnic community has managed to settle in and that includes Vietnamese refugees of the 70s but the refugees or immigrants from the middle east and Africa have been the gretest burden and security risk this country has faced.

Well then, that's the problem - EU laws.
Don't look to BG to clean the legal mess the EU is getting in by adopting American standards.
Europe is not an immigrant society and shouldn't act like it's the US.

Valeri according to EU laws Malta has no right to send them back , because most of them they ask permit of stay as refugees, because they are in danger in their country, and the others who don`t ask , are without passport as well, so where to send them ? in which country ? this is a very complex situation

Excuse me Aries,
I didn't mean to ignore your China reference.
As you know I often go to China and actually have met high Party officials on occasions, and there is a major difference.

You see, if you zoom out of the narrow Cold War concept of divisions (I wish the Americans wise up) the world isn't divided between Capitalist and Socialist, nor is it even between Democracy and Dictatorship.
The biggest Iron Curtain that's almost impossible to overcome if that between Institution based societies and Clan based ones.
Africa, most of the Middle East, the Sub Continent and some others are Clan based. That includes types of religion, various Castes and so on.
China is an Institution based society, not the same institutions as in the UK, but nevertheless, as such, it lends itself to social management.

Clan based societies are almost impossible to manage or subdue - you remember your Alexis Tocqueville, right?

P.S.

"Only problem is that if you talk to them, it's a pretty safe bet that they will be all for feeding the poor and helping the weak - extremely Christian and non-Darwinian concept..."

Supporting the weak, is turning evolution on its head, in that you are allowing the weaker to survive, with untold consequences for the future of the spices... it's an insult to Darwin;)

Aries (cont.)
The other irony here is the fact that much of that Anglo-American effort to lower mortality in the the countries with the highest birth rates,(by providing basic medicines and shipping foods) is moralistically motivated. I find that interesting because a good deal of the activists responsible, consider themselves "enlighten" anti-religion types, yet even the most extreme western rebells, just can't seem to be able to escape their Christian roots..
The idea of right and wrong is human yet biblical in nature.
Nowhere in Darwin's writings is there mention of what's wright and wrong.

In the US one sees often bumper stickers with a fish and the word "Darwin" written inside it, signifying that the driver doesn't believe in Creationism, but in Evolution.
Only problem is that if you talk to them, it's a pretty safe bet that they will be all for feeding the poor and helping the weak - extremely Christian and non-Darwinian concept...

Aries,
birth control is only possible in a civilized society, not in an Islamic context.
I think we all have the Brits to thank for this. By colonizing and attempting to engineer Arab societies, they succeeded in prematurely reducing the important balance between birth and death, that kept them from exploding.

What aggravates me even more is that they (Anglo-Americans) are still there doing the same, long after colonization.
Simple things like handing out mosquito nets, for example, ensures that countless more children will reach maturity, and of course live to procreate themselves, at the same disastrous rates, and of course eventually end up as responsibility of our children.
In a society, socially not ready for birth control, any reduction of the natural death rate has catastrophic consequences.

Have you noticed how we almost never hear people, active in the climate change movement, discuss birth rates? It seems to me that they are avoiding mentioning the elephant in the room, probably because most of those activists tend to be politically on the Left, and have presumably appointed themselves to the role of protectors of minority rights in their respective countries.
Major conflict of interest, simply because population explosion (none-white birth rates) must be at the core of climate change....

I truly wish every European visits India or Pakistan, or even a major Arab country. There is a tidal wave of humanity brewing there, that's poised to flood everything you know... no joke.

Maltese,
Why can't Malta just take them back to Africa?
Why do they have to be passed on North?

Ones you start doing this, there is no end.

Vanko , it`s true that Siberia is under populated but they can`t help in this issue, but as far as I know even Bulgaria is under populated :) so perhaps we can start with Bulgaria, joking apart my point is that now all eu countries are in a team , so everybody has to take good things and less good things, not fare on some countries which are closer to Africa take all the weight.

maltese - you make very valid points as Malta is tiny. Siberia is very underpopulated maybe the Russians could help out??

zdravei na vsicki,

I was reading all the comments, but nobody mentioned the size of Malta and the percentage of immigrants on our grounds, and with these you have to add all the other foreign workers who are coming from EU. As everybody knows Malta is suffering from all these conditions so it`s time that the other countries will start to take some of this weight from Malta, and by the way , to all my Bulgarian friends, Malta is not doing like some other EU countries forbidding Bulgarian workers, who is willing to come and to work is more than welcome.

sorry i can`t write in Bulgarian because my Bulgarian is very bad :)

Valeri
I agree on the population pessure
but what about birth control
China made it more or less work through prnalty charges on the excess of two children the measure seemas to work By the way the immigrants carry with them treir habiits of takung no birh control measures and thus the result will be shifted to the reception countries creating employeyement discrepamcie and maybe resulting into a Malthusian Check in the next 30-40 years.
In my opinion the issue is a UN
one resides in the will of richer nations to invest (infrastructures)in order to kep the poopulations where they belong.
Where is a will there is a way.

Cosmos - I liked your comment about the stray dogs remends me of what we used to say about the vietnamese and cats!
Would it not be better to give the money to those prepared to go home. Obviouslt strictly supervised and payable weekly so they could support their families in their own homeland. It would keep the families together and away from here. I guess electronic tagging or similar would be required to ensure they dont just slip back in again. How many here have to live on less than 4000 euro? More than half the population!!!

North african = muslims. Yeah right send the muslims to us...

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained off-topic content.

But i suppose it will cure the stray dog problem.

If they are going to BG for a better life they are in for a shock someone is taking the piss.

I think Mikael is being conservative.
School is much more because there are 8 kids on the average in a "North African" family.

Note how the majority are men.
There are 4 wives and 10 kids behind, for every one of those guys.

4000 euro per refugee annually!?
And now the REAL cost.

Hospitalization: 3000 euro
School: 2000 euro
Food: 3000 euro
Clothes: 2400 euro
Housing: 3000 euro
Travel: 1200 euro
Investigation by authorities: 5000 euro
Vandalism: 2500 euro
Crime and punishment: 8000 euro
Cost for family reunification: 13000 euro

Aries,
they can't.
The population pressure is such that you can't improve anything before there are other millions already waiting.
Improving things for Muslims is like scooping up the sea with a bucket - good luck....

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language.

i would love it, why not, it will spice things up. but i have one condiiton for the Maltese. If we accept, say 2 000 african refugees, they will accept 2 000 Bulgarian Mutra scum in exchange. fair swap?

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language.

This comment has been removed by the moderator because it contained foul, abusive or discriminating language.