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Fighting for the EU, not against
15:00 Thu 10 Apr 2003
 
Jose Maria Aznar
Jose Maria Aznar
Prime Minister of Spain Jose Maria Aznar went against the decision of France and Germany and the 91 per cent disapproval of his own electorate regarding Spain's participation in the war with Iraq? How do you comment on that?

Let me state, right away, that I do not think the Spanish Prime Minister has gone against anybody's decision. The policy adopted and developed by the Spanish Government in this crisis has been aimed both at upholding international legality and preserving and enhancing international security. As you know, Spain, as of January 1, 2003, is sitting in the UN Security Council as a non-permanent member for the period 2003-2004. In this position and in this context, we are firmly determined and committed to playing a responsible and positive role.

Therefore, on the one hand, it has to be remembered that the Iraqi crisis did not begin yesterday: since the 1990 Kuwait invasion by Saddam Hussein's regime, the Security Council has adopted a large number of resolutions, authorising in 1990 the use of force to put an end to that intolerable violation of international law. And it has to be equally remembered that the cease-fire established by Resolution 687 was specifically subject to Iraq's unconditional and internationally supervised destruction of all its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. This condition has so far not been met.

Moreover, in the past decade, Iraq's regime has systematically not complied with more than 50 UN Security Council resolutions, thereby deserving and getting six resolutions of condemnation. It is upon this background that, after 12 years of non compliance, the UN Security Council unanimously adopted in November 2002 Resolution 1441, endorsed by the EU, NATO and the Arab League, giving Iraq's regime a final warning about the serious and grave consequences that would ensue if it did not immediately comply with it. The Government of Spain is among those who believe that, unfortunately, the Iraqi regime has once again not complied with a UN Security Council resolution, and in particular with this very important resolution.

On the other hand, and at the same time, my government considers that there exists an extremely serious risk and menace of a connection between the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism. This is no fancy or imagination, but a very real risk and therefore to fight against it must be our duty and our responsibility. It certainly is the main goal of Spain's foreign policy, both in our bilateral relations and in international fora. September 11 made clear that there are Governments and regimes, like Saddam's that give shelter to terrorism, that hide terrorists and that can provide them with weapons of mass destruction. We must face this challenge in a very determined way and that is what we are doing.

Now, this being said, I have to add that I am perfectly convinced that, in this matter, in Europe we all share the same goals. There is no doubt about that. There is certainly not unanimity on the ways to achieve them and, hence, the discussions that have taken place. But we sure are all in favour of systems (and of an international system) that allow for democracy, rule of law, respect for human rights and a secure environment. Our enemies are among regimes like Saddam's, and not among our own allies and likeminded partners.

It is true that opinion polls in Spain (and, in fact, elsewhere) indicate that there exists an important antiwar feeling. That does not surprise me. It is only normal. In all true democracies people are in favour of peace and against war. But we are not dealing with a simplistic issue, with a black or white, yes or no dilemma. And, anyway, democratically elected governments cannot simply base their actions or decisions on mere opinion polls. They have to live up to the responsibilities bestowed on them by the voters, and it will be up to these same voters to decide, when the moment comes, whether they renew their confidence in the government or not. We have to abide by election polls, not by opinion polls.

Do you think that the Coalition leaders in the Iraq issue will share the same political and economic responsibility for the war in Iraq? Are they going to get together to take decisions in all fields in post war Iraq?

When this war comes to an end, the stabilisation and reconstruction of Iraq will require and demand the efforts of all democracies and nations of good will. As I said before, our goals are shared by many countries. There is no doubt that we shall all meet at the end of the road to make sure that this war has not been waged in vain.

How much time do you think the war will last?

This is a question that I really cannot answer. I wish I could. I can only share with you my strong wish for a quick end to this war, with as few casualties and damages as possible. But there again, I think that we all share exactly the same wish.

Is Spain taking part in the military operations in Iraq with troops and equipment?

Spain is not directly participating with combat troops, although we do provide the logistical support that stems from our commitments to our allies (use of air and naval bases and use of our air space). I want to highlight, anyway, that Spain intends to take an important part in the humanitarian relief. In this respect, I can tell you that the Spanish government has already allocated 50 million euro for humanitarian help. To this end we have sent to the region three ships, among which is one hospital ship, one cargo ship and one frigate which, all in all, means almost one thousand people involved in humanitarian tasks.

What is your evaluation of Bulgaria's position on the Iraqi crisis?

We are in the same coalition and we share the same principles and goals. We have been co-operating very closely in the Security Council both to seek the disarmament of Saddam Hussein's regime and to reach a common position in the United Nations. And this, obviously, has not been an easy task. At this stage I can tell you that I have a very high and positive opinion of Bulgaria's position in this crisis, precisely because it has been a moderate and constructive position based on solid and democratic principles.

Does it worry you that in both Spain and Bulgaria the socialist parties are gaining popularity through their antiwar stances?

Not at all, as long as the socialist option is a democratic one. But once again, let's not rely on the opinion polls, but rather let's wait for the election polls, they are the ones that are really meaningful.

Do you think that the UN is no longer effective?

I don't think so. The UN has often lived through difficult times, but it has always proved very useful. If it did not exist we would have to invent it yet again. Moreover, let me quote from the statement unanimously adopted by all EU Member States in the last European Council, held in Brussels last March: "We reiterate our commitment to the fundamental role of the United Nations in the international system and to the primary responsibility of the Security Council for the maintenance of international peace and stability".

After Bulgaria's invitation in Brussels to NATO, Canada's immediate reaction was to ratify this. Do you think that Spain could be the second country to ratify Bulgaria joining the alliance?

I wish I could just answer yes, because I am certain that, on the Spanish side, there are not any outstanding issues or obstacles against this ratification. But things are not as easy as that. As a matter of fact I am amazed at the speed with which Canada managed to complete this ratification procedure in just a matter of days. Even relying on a strong political will, these procedures are usually rather complicated and time consuming. In the Spanish procedure a ratification of such an agreement has to be approved by both chambers of parliament before it is put to the signature of the King.

Bulgaria and Spain have concluded an agreement regulating labour migration to Spain in what industries will Bulgarian employees mostly be involved and hired?

This agreement is still being negotiated. Indeed its text has already been agreed by the negotiating delegations of both countries which met in Sofia a couple of weeks ago, but it still has to receive the final approval of both governments. Last year we reached and concluded an agreement on social security, which was the first step. Now we are in the final stages of this labour agreement, which, I hope, will be completed in a couple of months. Through this instrument each state will determine each year those fields in which there exists a need for labour force and facilitate the ways to recruit that labour force in the other state. The social security agreement will ensure that those workers can fully enjoy their rights.

Would you draw a parallel between the socio - economic development of Bulgaria and Spain in the transition period between totalitarian governing and democracy?

Only to a limited extent. In Spain we did have a period of transition from a totalitarian regime to a democracy, just like you. But the main changes were in the political side. On the contrary, in the economic field we came from a different background because we already had in place the main market economy institutions (banking system, stock exchange, free enterprise, etc) and our market economy culture was highly developed as we were already competing with the main market economy countries. We certainly had to cut subsidies, eliminate protection barriers and encourage our businessmen to accept a true free competition. But the bases were already there. I think this process in Bulgaria is more difficult and complicated because it comes from a quite different starting point.

Do you feel any improvement and impetus in bilateral relations after Simeon Saxe-Coburg came to power in Bulgaria?

I do feel a constant and steady improvement, but I think it is only normal. For the past six years Spain and Bulgaria have been developing very deep and close relations in all fields. If our relations reached an excellent level under the previous government, it is obvious that they can only follow the same path under a government presided by Simeon Saxe-Coburg, because the Bulgarian Prime Minister is a person deeply respected and admired in all spheres of Spanish life.

In this respect could you make a comparison between Bulgaria and Spain's judicial systems?

In this field I think there are still important differences, not only with Spain but also with the prevailing systems in the different EU member states. Indeed, the reform of the judiciary in Bulgaria is not yet ahead, as it has been consistently pointed out by the European Commission Reports, and it is perhaps the sector in which the final breakthrough in the negotiations with the EU will take place. I am glad to acknowledge the close co-operation that exists between Spain and Bulgaria in all issues related to "Justice and Home Affairs", through which my country is trying to transmit its own experience in such a delicate and sensitive field. In this context, I am particularly glad that all political groups represented in Parliament recently reached a consensus on the main lines for the reform of the Judiciary. Precisely a very similar basic consensus was the cornerstone on which our own reform was based and carried out successfully. I think the Bulgarian political leadership is thereby setting an example that will bear very positive and rapid results.

How do you envisage future relations between Bulgaria and Spain and what areas do you see as being of particular mutual strategic importance?

There is a very clear path in which there is very little margin for invention. Our two countries are very soon going to be full partners and allies both in NATO and in the EU. In NATO this will take place "de jure" in a few more months. In the EU, it will hopefully take place by the January 1, 2007, as it was acknowledged at the Copenhagen EU Council. Our bilateral relationship is therefore bound to grow richer and deeper all the time. Now, if there is one field in which we will see great improvements, it will be the economic one. And that will take place as soon as Bulgaria concludes and consolidates its economic and judicial reforms. I think our economies can have strong links in all sectors.

Do you see any differences in the workings of the parliaments of Spain and Bulgaria?

I don't think that the fact that Bulgaria is a Republic and Spain a Monarchy really translates into any substantial difference in the work of our parliaments. We both have a system that can be described as "parliamentary democracy". The main differences might be that in Spain our Parliament has two chambers (which slightly complicates the procedure of approving laws) and you have only one. On the other hand our head of state, unlike yours, does not have a veto power over laws duly approved by both chambers. But these differences do no affect the essence of the parliamentary work, which is, in both cases, to discuss and pass legislation and to control the executive power.

How would you comment on the tri-polar model of ruling in Bulgaria after Simeon Saxe Coburg's election?

It is not for me, but for the Bulgarians to assess what are the advantages and disadvantages of the architecture set up by their Constitution. What I have noticed during the two years that I have been here is that your political institutions seem to work smoothly. The President, the Government and Parliament exercise their competences in a democratic way and according to the law. There are political discrepancies, but that is democracy, that is pluralism. In the end, the people will have the final word in the next election.

Where are Spanish economists looking for fresh investment capital after the expiry terms for EU financing for Spain at the end of 2006?

The European Union is still working under the financial perspectives approved in Berlin in 1999. In the near future, the member states will have to start the discussion of the financial framework for the period 2007-2013. Therefore the moment has not yet come to say what will become of the cohesion or structural funds after 2007. But within the EU member states that subject cannot be linked to the entirely different subject of foreign investments. These latter depend more on the way our open market economies function, and therefore attract foreign private capital, whereas the former are the instrument through which the EU expresses its principle of solidarity and distributes public funds to help reach a more homogeneous development. Fresh investments are not a concern in the Spanish economy. We receive them, just as we heavily invest abroad (we are the fifth foreign investor in the world). But that is just the result of a healthy, open, reliable and dynamic economy, and that, certainly, is an achievement in which our membership in the EU has played a very important role. Now, the structural and cohesion funds are an entirely different matter, which will have to be discussed very soon.

What role did EU pre-accession funds have for Spain and do you think they are important for Bulgaria?

Spain did not get any pre-accession funds because before Spain joined the EU such a mechanism did not exist. We had trade preferences and technical assistance in some fields, to bring up to European standards certain sectors as, for instance, customs. But we did not benefit from any direct financial assistance. It was only after we joined the EU that we started receiving cohesion and structural funds. Now, the fact that today the EU is providing pre-accession funds for the candidate countries is certainly very important for a country like Bulgaria, bearing in mind that it has to go through a deeper and more complicated transition because of the nature of its previous economic system.

What are the similarities and differences between Spain and Bulgaria in both their pre-accession periods?

I think I have already mentioned both the main similarities (political transition from dictatorship to democracy) and the main differences (quite different economic systems). There are obviously other differences, like for instance those that stem from the different time and the different surroundings. But there are certain general and main ideas that will, for sure, be meaningful for all Bulgarians in the present circumstances. To join - and afterwards to grow within - the EU is an endeavour that requires patience, effort and tenacity. Bulgarians should preserve the consensus they have reached around their aim to zjoin the EU, and never lose sight of the fact that the sacrifices they are making today are the best guarantee of a better morrow for them and their children. They are catching up and that requires a continuous effort. At the same time, it is important not to be self-complacent. The easiest part in this game is to pass legislation, to adopt the "acquis". The most difficult part is to really apply it.

Is there any remnant of the former Spanish ambassador's warm relations with the former UDF ruling party ? And are you considering following this trend?

Those relations are just as warm as they have always been. I am very grateful to my predecessor, Jose Coderch, for the outstanding job he carried out and for the enormous amount of friends he made, not only within the UDF but among all the other political forces as well. I can assure you that it is not difficult for me to follow his trend: it is a real pleasure.

 
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Comments
 
Comments by itp - 11:44 14 Apr 2005
Íà ñíèìêàòà íå å áèâøèÿò ÌÏ Õîñå-Ìàðèÿ Àñíàð, à áèâøèÿò ïîñëàíèê â Áúëãàðèÿ Õîñå Àíõåë Ëîïåñ Õîðèí. Äîáðå å ðåäàêòîðèòå äà ïðîâåðÿâàò äàëè èìà ñúâïàäåíèå ìåæäó ëèöåòî è èìåòî ïîä íåãî.
 
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